Talk:Joachim Meyer

Work	Author(s)	Source	License
Lund Figures	Lunds Universitets Bibliotek	Lunds Universitets Bibliotek
1570 Figures	Tobias Stimmer	Universitätsbibliothek Leipzig
Rostock Figures		Universitätsbibliothek Rostock
Translation	Mike Rasmusson	Schielhau.org
Translation	Kevin Maurer	Meyer Frei Fechter Guild
Translation	Thomas Carrillo	Meyer Frei Fechter Guild
Translation	Jon Pellett	Megalophias his Page
Translation	Jordan E. Finch	Wiktenauer
Lund Transcription	Olivier Dupuis	Index:Joachim Meyers Fäktbok (MS A.4º.2)
1570 Transcription	Michael Chidester	Index:Gründtliche Beschreibung... der Kunst des Fechtens
Rostock Transcription	Jens P. Kleinau	Index:Fechtbuch zu Ross und zu Fuss (MS Var.82)

Solms/Lund Manuscript

Transcription Notes

Note: the page number is the one indicated on the upper right corner; this numbering is often missing or partially cut, in all but the first pages. This is an argument for their writing before the the current binding.

There is an apparent disorder in this numbering in the first pages; the number 1|5 is placed between the pages 2 and 3 and the pages 6 and 7 seem to have been inversed.

Particularity of the language for the hand B (fol. 10r-38v)

• position inversion for the letter h in certain words: nhemlich, sthe, verkheren, thrit, ahn, fhel
• introduction of a h after the initial k: khunst, khommen
• contraction of einem/deinem/seinem in eim/deim/seim
• a capital on the first letter in the words "In" or "Im" (only exception on fol. 18v)

Abbreviations system for the hand B:

• -en/-n : a running line at the end of the word (abgehen, ...), very common
• -er-, -er: a sort of apostrophe in the middle or the end of a word (od' for oder), very common too
• initial letters followed by a dot or double do (sch: of fol. 36r for "schneid"), uncommon
• v stricken for versetzen, uncommon, one occurrence on fol. 30v

Punctuation used by the hand B: "/" "." "?" (fol. 10v), "¶" (actually a sign indicating the end of a paragraph), ":" (fols 13r, 22r)

Particularity of the language for the hand A (fol. 1r-9v, 38v-...)

The language used by the hand A does not share the same particularities , it uses less abbreviations, more double n (unnd, ochsenn, ...), -e added to vowel to mark a diphthong (bloess, moecht), which could indicate a composition from another period.

Caractéristiques idiomatique:

• itzt : encore utilisé dans certaines régions suisses (fol. 27v, 29r, 71r)
• i,j and u,v are rendered following their own pronunciation system
• overscripting done to indicate a u instead a n, or a y instead a g, are note rendered

Translation Notes

I have used the word Stück and its plural form Stücken, instead of attempting a translation into English. I experimented with the word Technique in places here and there, or where I felt it was meaningful. In several places I interchanged the use of the word 'Travel after' with Chase, specifically when translating the word nachreisen. I have maintained Meyer's use of the German word Zufechten. Also, I have used the word Onset to translate the word Zugang, where it was used.

In translating the Longsword section, I cross referenced the excellent translation work of Dr. Jeffrey Forgeng. His translation work in the Meyer 1570 Strassburg, is superior to anything I could conceive of here, and so in the hopes of sharing a better translation of the 1560, I was inspired in places from his portions of the 1570 Longsword Section. especially where those portions appeared word for word from the 1570 to the 1560. Several of Dr Forgeng's translations of the two line verses, for example, are much more descriptive and accurate than anything I could come up with. And as such, we are very grateful to Dr. Forgeng.

I have transcribed and translated this fencing book over the course of several years now. And have graciously accepted the help and advice of Jens P. Kleinau. He contributed significantly to vital areas of this work. I am grateful for his suggestions and corrections. And will always remain open to the same from others.

This translation is undoubtedly an amateur attempt. and we all look forward to a more professionally done English translation of this important Meyer work. But in the meantime, this should provide us with many more questions, and hopefully some answers.

I have omitted Translator's notes on the respective pages. The reader will undoubtedly notice that several plates or images are referenced in text by Meyer, and yet no image is to be found "above". We have called this the 1st Edition so that further editions will be released with any and all necessary corrections made. And my transcription will remain available for those interested in that. But I would hope that they will also, and ultimately share their translations.

Also I would like to personally thank Mike Cartier, Hauptmann of the MFFG, for the inspiration in getting this project done. For having Faith in the vision, and for his help in creating the digital workspace where I was able to keep this project organized. In addition I would like to thank everyone else in the Meyer Freyfechter Guild, who has helped me with this.

Especially Chris Van Slambrouck, Illinois MFFG. Chris Van Slambrouck has cleverly overlayed my English translation onto the original, and we hope that it will be read in the spirit that it was written.

We would also like to express our gratitude to the University of Lund, Sweden for sharing this important Meyer work.

Kevin Maurer 12/12/12

Please note that no project from the Guild is ever truly finished, we always welcome feedback to improve our service to Meyer and the HEMA community.

Comments

looks good man!

small note:

"The Thursday following the swear day, Joachim Meyer was gone to Schwerin in the coldest period of the year, invited by the duke to teach fencing. But Joachim Meyer died 14 days after his arrival in Schwerin." - V14 doc110 Strasbourg archives

The Schwörtag or swear day took place in Strasbourg the first Tuesday of each year; in 1571 that was the 2nd - so the Thursday following Schwörtag was the 4th.

so under your References section number Seven I suggest removing the "Assuming"

There are some other items I would also clarify or fix, but they are minor.

I will be re-writing my article on Meyer soon, incorporating some new research discoveries by Kevin Maurer and I (mostly Kevin!98%). Although said research will be presented in the MFFG Quarterly Journal first and foremost.

Primary sources

the source for "Marriage: Joachim Meyer from Basel, messerschmiede Appolonia Rulmennin, widow of Jacob Wickgaw, messerschmiede 4 July 1560" is ‘Original Aux AM Strasbourg’ (Straßburg, 1552–1568), Archives départementales du Conseil général du Bas-Rhin, Registres paroissiaux Paroisse protestante (Saint-Guillaume) <http://etat-civil.bas-rhin.fr/adeloch/adeloch_accessible/adeloch_consult.php?refacces=YToyOntzOjY6ImlkX2NvbSI7czozOiI0NzgiO3M6NjoiaWRfaWR4IjtzOjY6IjI5MjI1OSI7fQ==>

Day of Meyer's death

FYI , February 24, 1571 was a Wednesday and the 55th day of the year in the Gregorian calendar with 310 days remaining in the year.

Day of Meyer's Wedding

It was a Monday on July 4, 1560 and it was the 186th day of the year in the Gregorian calendar

Day of Meyer's Birth

It was Monday on August 16, 1537 and it was the 228th day of the year in the Gregorian calendar.

Basel in Germany?

Is there any indication the city of Basel was in the Kingdom of Germany at the time of Meyer's birth? The Wikipedia article for Meyer says this too, but all evidence I can find as well as intuition would point to Basel having been a Swiss confederated state (within the HRE but separate and de facto independent) by 1501, thirty-six years prior to Meyer's birth. A few books informing my question are Zeitsprünge - Basler Geschichte, Wörterbuch des Völkerrechts and Bonjour's A short History of Switzerland, and period maps of the HRE and surrounding areas during the 16th c. Discussion and possible enlightenment to new information on this welcomed. 》Paul Grayson (talk) 08:00, 25 February 2022 (UTC)