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Difference between revisions of "User:Kendra Brown/Florius/English MS Latin 11269 21r"
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== Latin verse from P-D and English prose from Getty==  | == Latin verse from P-D and English prose from Getty==  | ||
| − | {|  | + | {| class="master" style="width: 90em;"  | 
|-  | |-  | ||
| − | |   | + | | class="noline" | {{section|Page:Pisani-Dossi MS 06a.jpg|6a-a}}  | 
| − | + | | class="noline" |    | |
| − | + | Why do I carry a dagger in my right hand? I carry it for my art because I've deserved it well, since if anyone attacks me with a dagger, I take it from their hand. And with that, I'd know how to wound and finish well because I know all the pros and cons.    | |
| − | + | | class="noline" | {{section|Page:MS Ludwig XV 13 10r.jpg|10r-a}}  | |
| − | |   | ||
| − | Why do I carry a dagger in my right hand? I carry it for my art  | ||
| − | |   | ||
|-  | |-  | ||
| − | + | | {{section|Page:Pisani-Dossi MS 06a.jpg|6a-b}}  | |
| − | + | |    | |
| − | + | Through the broken arms I carry, I want to say that my art (to tell the truth) has broken and dislocated many in my life, and whoever wants to set himself against the art I want to make, I'm always ready to want to use such art.    | |
| − | + | | {{section|Page:MS Ludwig XV 13 10r.jpg|10r-b}}  | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | |||
|-  | |-  | ||
| − | + | | {{section|Page:Pisani-Dossi MS 06a.jpg|6a-c}}  | |
| − | + | |    | |
| − | + | I'm the master of opening and also of closing—that is, [enclosing] the arms of those who want to go against me. I'll thrust them into great contention and suffering through the binds and breaks that are drawn. Thus, I carry a key to show that this art is well worthy of me.  | |
| − | + | | {{section|Page:MS Ludwig XV 13 10r.jpg|10r-c}}  | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I   | ||
| − | |||
|-  | |-  | ||
| − | + | | {{section|Page:Pisani-Dossi MS 06a.jpg|6a-d}}  | |
| − | + | |    | |
| − | + | You were asking me why I hold this man under my feet? Because I've put thousands in such a match through the art of wrestling. In victory, I carry the palm in my right hand because I will never cease in my wrestling.    | |
| − | + | | {{section|Page:MS Ludwig XV 13 10r.jpg|10r-d}}  | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | You were asking me why I   | ||
| − | |||
|}  | |}  | ||
==English 21r==  | ==English 21r==  | ||
| − | ===Florius===  | + | <noinclude>===Florius===  | 
</noinclude>  | </noinclude>  | ||
| − | <poem>  | + | <poem>✅For instance, I signify as safe, using the palm, thus I carry off the dagger.    | 
Everything having been carried off in victory, I lift that same [dagger] with my hand.  | Everything having been carried off in victory, I lift that same [dagger] with my hand.  | ||
| − | + | ✅When I conquer all the ones who can be warlike with me,  | |
| − | I  | + | I am distinguished by these arms in accordance with the broken hands I carry.  | 
| − | + | ✅I secure the confined arms from all people waging war in the region  | |
| − | In   | + | In such a way that they are unable to extend the right hand /  | 
| − | + | Thus I now joyfully collect two keys in [my] hands.  | |
| − | + | ✅You ask why I, with glory, destroy such excellent ones under my feet.  | |
| − | + | Because, with the palm extended in our right hand, I assert to all men,   | |
| − | + | you will be overthrown by wrestling, indeed, you will be stopped.  | |
</poem>  | </poem>  | ||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | |||
===Pisani-Dossi===  | ===Pisani-Dossi===  | ||
<poem>  | <poem>  | ||
| − | + | ✅For instance I sign the safe palm, thus I bring home the dagger.  | |
Everything having been carried off in victory, I lift that same [dagger] with my hand.  | Everything having been carried off in victory, I lift that same [dagger] with my hand.  | ||
| − | + | ✅When I conquer all the ones who can be warlike with me,  | |
| − | By Pollux, I carry arms   | + | By Pollux, I carry arms, distinguished by the broken hands<ref>Ablative absolute: the hands being distinguished by being broken</ref>.  | 
| − | + | ✅I secure the confined arms from all people waging war in the region  | |
| − | In   | + | In such a way that they are unable to extend the right hand /  | 
| − | Thus  | + | Thus I now joyfully collect two keys in [my] hands.  | 
| − | + | ✅You ask why I, with glory, destroy such excellent ones under my feet.  | |
| − | because I assert   | + | because with our palm extended, I assert to all men,   | 
| − | + | you will be overthrown by wrestling, indeed, your right hand will be stopped.  | |
</poem>  | </poem>  | ||
==Notes==  | ==Notes==  | ||
===Verse 2===  | ===Verse 2===  | ||
| − | * "ornatis lacertis" seems like it might mean something like modern slang "with guns out" (in the arm muscles sense)  | + | * "ornatis lacertis" (something like "decorated with arms/shoulders") seems like it might mean something like modern slang "with guns out" (in the arm muscles sense)  | 
| − | * "pol" in Latin is an abbreviated phrase for "by Pollux!" - note similarity to pollex, meaning thumb.  | + | * "pol" in Latin is an abbreviated phrase for "by Pollux!" - note similarity to pollex, meaning thumb.  The zodiac twins Castor and Pollux are associated with wrestling.  | 
===Verse 3===  | ===Verse 3===  | ||
Latest revision as of 19:14, 5 August 2025
Contents
Latin 21r
Nam palma tutam signo sic defero dagam.
Cum manibus tollam cunctis gestantibus ipsam.
- Cum cunctos superem qui possunt bellica mecum
Pro manibus fractis ornatus porto lacertis. 
Brachia conclaudas cunctis bellantibus orbe
Taliter ut dextram nequeant praetendere tutam /
Nunc letus claves manibus sic congero binas.
- Queris cur pedibus pessundo gloria tales
Cur luctando viros dico prosternere cuntos
Palma quidem nostra praetenditur sistere dextra. 
Latin verse from P-D and English prose from Getty
[6a-a] Nam palmam tutam signo sic refero dagam  | 
 Why do I carry a dagger in my right hand? I carry it for my art because I've deserved it well, since if anyone attacks me with a dagger, I take it from their hand. And with that, I'd know how to wound and finish well because I know all the pros and cons.  | 
[10r-a] ¶ Per che io porto daga in mia mane dritta, io la porto per mia arte che lla o ben meritada, che zaschun che me trara di daga, io gle'la toro di mano. E cum quella lo savero ben ferire, pero che lo pro e'l contra del tutto so finire.  | 
[6a-b] Cum cuntos superem qui possunt bellica mecum  | 
 Through the broken arms I carry, I want to say that my art (to tell the truth) has broken and dislocated many in my life, and whoever wants to set himself against the art I want to make, I'm always ready to want to use such art.  | 
[10r-b] ¶ Per gli brazzi rotti ch'io porto, io voglio dir mia arte, ch'e questa senza voler mentire, che assaii n'o rotti e dislogadi in mia vita, e chi contra mia arte se mettera voler fare, Tal arte sempre io son per voler usare.  | 
[6a-c] Brachia cumclaudas cuntis bellantibus orbe  | 
 I'm the master of opening and also of closing—that is, [enclosing] the arms of those who want to go against me. I'll thrust them into great contention and suffering through the binds and breaks that are drawn. Thus, I carry a key to show that this art is well worthy of me.  | 
[10r-c] ¶ Io son magistro de avrire e anche di serare zoe gli brazi a chi contra mi vol fare, yo lo mettero in grande brige e stente per modo che le ligadure e rotture sono depente. E per zo porto le chiave per insegna, che tal arte ben m'e degna.  | 
[6a-d] Queris cur pedibus pessundo gloria talles  | 
 You were asking me why I hold this man under my feet? Because I've put thousands in such a match through the art of wrestling. In victory, I carry the palm in my right hand because I will never cease in my wrestling.  | 
[10r-d] ¶ Me domandavoii per che io tegno questo homo sotto gli miei piedi, per che miglara n'o posti a tale partito per l'arte dello Abrazare. E per vittoria io porto la palma in la man destra pero che dello abrazare za mai non fo resta.  | 
English 21r
Florius
✅For instance, I signify as safe, using the palm, thus I carry off the dagger. 
Everything having been carried off in victory, I lift that same [dagger] with my hand.
✅When I conquer all the ones who can be warlike with me,
I am distinguished by these arms in accordance with the broken hands I carry.
✅I secure the confined arms from all people waging war in the region
In such a way that they are unable to extend the right hand /
Thus I now joyfully collect two keys in [my] hands.
✅You ask why I, with glory, destroy such excellent ones under my feet.
Because, with the palm extended in our right hand, I assert to all men, 
you will be overthrown by wrestling, indeed, you will be stopped.
Pisani-Dossi
✅For instance I sign the safe palm, thus I bring home the dagger.
Everything having been carried off in victory, I lift that same [dagger] with my hand.
✅When I conquer all the ones who can be warlike with me,
By Pollux, I carry arms, distinguished by the broken hands[1].
✅I secure the confined arms from all people waging war in the region
In such a way that they are unable to extend the right hand /
Thus I now joyfully collect two keys in [my] hands.
✅You ask why I, with glory, destroy such excellent ones under my feet.
because with our palm extended, I assert to all men, 
you will be overthrown by wrestling, indeed, your right hand will be stopped.
Notes
Verse 2
- "ornatis lacertis" (something like "decorated with arms/shoulders") seems like it might mean something like modern slang "with guns out" (in the arm muscles sense)
 - "pol" in Latin is an abbreviated phrase for "by Pollux!" - note similarity to pollex, meaning thumb. The zodiac twins Castor and Pollux are associated with wrestling.
 
Verse 3
- letus (lioness) could be an alternate spelling of laetus (happy)
 - clavus = nail, clavis = key, clavas = rough club/tree branch/cudgel
 - conclavans = nailed together, having keys, with stripes of rank
 - clavatas/conclavatas = studded/hobnailed/decorated with nails
 - conclaudas is a reasonable reading of this abbreviation and matches the Italian better.
 - orbe = territory or bereft
 - Janus or Mercury might carry a clavis, Hercules carries a clavas
 
Images
- ↑ Ablative absolute: the hands being distinguished by being broken
 
