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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Fiore de'i Liberi"

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== Translation Notes (Paris) ==
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For a longer discussion of the process of creating this translation, see Kendra Brown et al.'s article ''[Florius de Arte Luctandi: Challenges and Discoveries in a Contemporary Latin Translation of Fiore dei Liberi http://hroarr.com/florius-de-arte-luctandi-challenges-and-discoveries-in-a-contemporary-latin-translation-of-fiore-dei-liberi/]''.
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We would like to state from the outset that the translation offered here should not be considered complete or final. Instead we offer it in the spirit of collaboration, with which it was composed, to the wider pool of knowledge in hopes that this will lead to improvements and fruitful discussion. Therefore, this introduction serves both as a brief record of our difficulties with the text, as a springboard to some of our questions, and as an invitation to improve the translation.
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There are already two print translations extant. Charlélie Berthaut’s initial transcription and translation into French (to be included in a forthcoming publication)<ref>Berthaut, Charlélie. “Florius, de Arte Luctandi - MS Latin 11269 - trancription & traduction.” Pôle d’Etude d’Arts Martiaux Historiques Européens, 2013. http://peamhe.wordpress.com/articles/traduction-du-florius-de-arte-luctandi/. Accessed 2015-11-23.</reF> was unfortunately based on poorer quality scans, which prevented him from identifying many of the later edits/erasures to the text, although Emmeline Baudet’s 2013 French thesis, transcription, and translation takes a much more detailed approach, addressing interlineal and marginal notes.<ref>Baudet, Emmeline. Édition du Florius, de arte luctandi, BNF lat. 11269 (Master’s thesis). Paris: Université Paris Sorbonne IV, 2013. http://www.academia.edu/5420225/%C3%89dition_et_analyse_du_Florius_de_Arte_Luctandi_BNF_Lat._11269. Accessed 2015-11-23.</ref> The more recent Italian translation by Francesco Lodà in 2014 took advantage of the higher-resolution scans that we also used.<ref>Lodà, Francesco. Florius. De arte luctandi. Traduzione e cura del testo di Francesco Lodà. Rome: Bonanno Editore, 2014.</ref> The Lodà transcription is of excellent quality and highly recommended. Due to these publications, an English translation seemed overdue.
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The text is difficult. At 44 folia, we anticipated a project that would cover a semester at our weekly meetings. Instead, the first complete draft took close to two years. The reasons for this are numerous, and largely given above. In addition, while it would have been easy to rely on the Pisani Dossi Ms. to guide the translation process, we discovered early on that even though the two manuscripts often showed considerable overlap in word choice, arranging the text of Florius to match the Pisani Dossi would be entirely ungrammatical more often than not. Instead, the Latin was first translated in isolation, and only after this step was the Pisani Dossi consulted to see if it suggested alternative valid readings.
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After all that time, this translation is still a work in progress, and we openly invite others to collaborate with us in this endeavor. We freely acknowledge the limits of our expertise, and hope that others will contribute theirs to ultimately yield a high-quality, fluent, English translation, as well as an accurate transcription of the Florius.

Revision as of 22:39, 3 April 2016

Work Author(s) Source License
Illustrations (Getty) J. Paul Getty Museum Digital images courtesy of the Getty's Open Content Program
Getty open content program.png
Illustrations (Morgan) Morgan Library & Museum Princeton Institute of Christian Art
Public Domain.png
Illustrations (Novati) Francesco Novati Flos Dvellatorvm in Armis, sine Armis, Eqvester, Pedester
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Illustrations (Paris) Bibliothèque Nationale de France Gallica
Public Domain.png
Translation Colin Hatcher Private communication
CCBYNCSA30.png
Translation Michael Chidester Wiktenauer
CCBYNCSA30.png
Translation Kendra Brown and Rebecca Garber Cambridge HEMA Society
Copyrighted.png
Morgan Version Michael Chidester Index:Tratt‍ato della sch‍erma (MS M.383)
CCBYNCSA30.png
Getty Version Michael Chidester Index:Fior di Battaglia (MS Ludwig XV 13)
CCBYNCSA30.png
Pisani Dossi Version Michael Chidester Index:Flos Duellatorum (Pisani Dossi MS)
CCBYNCSA30.png
Paris Version Kendra Brown and Rebecca Garber Index:Florius de Arte Luctandi (MS Latin 11269)
Copyrighted.png
San Daniele del Friuli Version Luigi Zanutto Index:Fior di Battaglia (MS XXIV)
Public Domain.png

Translation Notes (Paris)

For a longer discussion of the process of creating this translation, see Kendra Brown et al.'s article [Florius de Arte Luctandi: Challenges and Discoveries in a Contemporary Latin Translation of Fiore dei Liberi http://hroarr.com/florius-de-arte-luctandi-challenges-and-discoveries-in-a-contemporary-latin-translation-of-fiore-dei-liberi/].

We would like to state from the outset that the translation offered here should not be considered complete or final. Instead we offer it in the spirit of collaboration, with which it was composed, to the wider pool of knowledge in hopes that this will lead to improvements and fruitful discussion. Therefore, this introduction serves both as a brief record of our difficulties with the text, as a springboard to some of our questions, and as an invitation to improve the translation.

There are already two print translations extant. Charlélie Berthaut’s initial transcription and translation into French (to be included in a forthcoming publication)[1] was unfortunately based on poorer quality scans, which prevented him from identifying many of the later edits/erasures to the text, although Emmeline Baudet’s 2013 French thesis, transcription, and translation takes a much more detailed approach, addressing interlineal and marginal notes.[2] The more recent Italian translation by Francesco Lodà in 2014 took advantage of the higher-resolution scans that we also used.[3] The Lodà transcription is of excellent quality and highly recommended. Due to these publications, an English translation seemed overdue.

The text is difficult. At 44 folia, we anticipated a project that would cover a semester at our weekly meetings. Instead, the first complete draft took close to two years. The reasons for this are numerous, and largely given above. In addition, while it would have been easy to rely on the Pisani Dossi Ms. to guide the translation process, we discovered early on that even though the two manuscripts often showed considerable overlap in word choice, arranging the text of Florius to match the Pisani Dossi would be entirely ungrammatical more often than not. Instead, the Latin was first translated in isolation, and only after this step was the Pisani Dossi consulted to see if it suggested alternative valid readings.

After all that time, this translation is still a work in progress, and we openly invite others to collaborate with us in this endeavor. We freely acknowledge the limits of our expertise, and hope that others will contribute theirs to ultimately yield a high-quality, fluent, English translation, as well as an accurate transcription of the Florius.

  1. Berthaut, Charlélie. “Florius, de Arte Luctandi - MS Latin 11269 - trancription & traduction.” Pôle d’Etude d’Arts Martiaux Historiques Européens, 2013. http://peamhe.wordpress.com/articles/traduction-du-florius-de-arte-luctandi/. Accessed 2015-11-23.
  2. Baudet, Emmeline. Édition du Florius, de arte luctandi, BNF lat. 11269 (Master’s thesis). Paris: Université Paris Sorbonne IV, 2013. http://www.academia.edu/5420225/%C3%89dition_et_analyse_du_Florius_de_Arte_Luctandi_BNF_Lat._11269. Accessed 2015-11-23.
  3. Lodà, Francesco. Florius. De arte luctandi. Traduzione e cura del testo di Francesco Lodà. Rome: Bonanno Editore, 2014.